Business for Palantir is not going well now in Europe: The Swiss army has decided against it, the French domestic intelligence agency no longer wants it, London’s mayor has blocked a million-dollar police deal and all across the United Kingdom, political pressure is mounting around a million-dollar contract with the British health system.
The company, founded by libertarian billionaire Peter Thiel in 2003, is also facing criticism in its home market. In the United States, where it is headquartered, Palantir provides software not only to military and intelligence, but also to Immigration and Customs Enforcement. ICE uses their surveillance tools to hunt down unwanted groups or individuals.
Protest by civil society is being organized against the cooperation with ICE and against other unethical business practices. We speak to the two activists Jeff and Kay from the US campaign „Purge Palantir“.
Jeff is a long-time activist and an organizer, he is also an author. Kay is an organizer, trainer, and movement builder.
Dieses Interview gibt es auch auf Deutsch.
The three worst things that Palantir is doing
netzpolitik.org: Here in Germany, the U.S. business of Palantir is mostly known for working together with ICE and also with U.S. Army and intelligence agencies. What is the most problematic use of Palantir’s software?
Purge Palantir: Before we say what we’re most critical about we should explain what Palantir says they are doing. Palantir says that their product sits on top of existing software and supposedly makes everything better. It supposedly sees patterns and connections between all the massive amounts of data that are coming in, whether it’s a hospital, whether it’s a department store, whether it’s military. They sort of aggregate that data and help their customers see patterns, and they help to make them more efficient. That’s what they’re saying they’re doing.
It’s very hard to get them out once they’re in, because they have specialists who connect their system to the other systems of the given, whether that’s a company, whether that’s a city government, whether it’s a military. It’s unclear what data they are holding and keeping.
The three worst things that they’re doing: One, as many German readers might know, Elon Musk and a number of coders came in when the Trump administration took over and started taking down the U.S. government civil service and bureaucracy. There was the so-called Department of Governmental Efficiency or DOGE. It destroyed departments of the government, it fired lots of workers, but it also sucked up tons and tons of data.
Government data consisted of different parts: The Social Security Administration didn’t talk to the passport agency in the interest of data privacy. The U.S. doesn’t have a national ID like many other countries. This data was all aggregated, and Palantir had a role in all of that. Palantir software is in many of the governmental departments, not just the military.
The second thing is obviously: We do know that Palantir software is not just finding patterns in order to track down immigrants, but it’s also using various facial recognition systems for people who are protesting against deportation and ICE.
The third thing: Palantir has had a significant role with the Israeli defense forces and has given instructions for where Hamas allegedly is, where to bomb. It has a role in the genocide. If you listen to Alex Karp’s talk, …
netzpolitik.org: … Palantir’s CEO …
Purge Palantir: … he said that they’ve killed lots of people in Gaza, most of them Hamas. It’s an incredibly unprincipled thing to say they’re just happy to have played a role in this destruction.
netzpolitik.org: What was the beginning of „Purge Palantir“? Why did you start the campaign?
Purge Palantir: „Purge Palantir“ actually has a bit of a longer history, we’re like a current iteration of a much longer fight. During Trump’s first term, some advocates and organizers started noticing that ICE was able to find and pinpoint people in ways that were previously just not possible. They started doing a lot of digging and discovered a web of data brokers and companies like Palantir that helped ICE specifically, using all of our public and private data to be able to find people.
So out of that came a campaign called „No Tech for ICE“. It was targeting Palantir, but also Google, Amazon, some of the other tech companies that were enabling ICE to separate families and to conduct kidnappings. „Purge Palantir“ grows out of that, now under the second Trump administration. During the first Trump administration, Palantir’s Karp was pretty explicit that they’re going to help the agents in the background, at the offices. Back then he said that they are not going to be involved in what’s called enforcement and removal operations where the agents are picking people up physically for deportation.
Under the second Trump administration that has vanished. Palantir is now enabling the worst of Trump’s attacks. I think that’s been one of the catalysts for „Purge Palantir“.
The „Palantir Payroll“
netzpolitik.org: What is the volume of contracts Palantir holds with the U.S. Government? How much money are we talking about?
Purge Palantir: It grows every day, so I’m outdated. The last number I saw: They were in 21 or 26 different federal agencies. They’ve said for a long time that their goal is to become the central operating system of the U.S. Government and now increasingly the central operating system of the West. About half of their revenue comes from U.S. federal governments and the military, the rest is commercial and foreign governments.
netzpolitik.org: Palantir has long-term contracts that extend well beyond the Trump administration’s term in office. Is it a problem that will persist under Trump’s successor?
Purge Palantir: Yes, the contracts are longer than the current administration. But I think that’s not permanent or untouchable. Contracts get canceled in the federal government all the time.
A few months ago we launched something called the „Palantir Payroll“. It’s a list of all members of U.S. Congress who are getting money from Palantir. People have demanded that their members of Congress cut ties with the company. 12 or 14 people who are up for reelection this year have said that they’re not going to take any more money from Palantir. I think elected official members of Congress know that the company is really toxic and that people don’t want them to be bought and paid for by this company and people like Peter Thiel and Alex Karp.
A lot of people still don’t know what Palantir is
netzpolitik.org: How did you achieve that politicians refuse Palantir’s money or give it back?
Purge Palantir: It’s a great testament to the large number of coalition groups in „Purge Palantir“. There are many groups that want to fight, whether those are unions or community groups, whether that’s California or Connecticut or Maine. Because of what happened in Minnesota people find that their congressperson, their representative was taking money from the corporation that was identifying and abetting the kidnapping of people and the murder of two people who were trying to stop those kidnappings from ICE.
It’s a testament to how many different groups across the country started taking the message particularly to the Democrats and saying: Do you want to be part of that? It is the hard work of lots and lots of different kinds of people who have been standing up and asking their representatives to take a stand.
netzpolitik.org: What is the average American thinking about Palantir? And what do right-wing political forces say about the company?
Purge Palantir: It’s hard to say with certainty, but what we’ve seen is that, especially over the last year, a growing number of everyday people know about Palantir. Even if they don’t know exactly what they do, they know that they’re in surveillance. What we found is that a lot of younger people know about Palantir, even if they’re not paying attention to politics.
I think they’re becoming more of a household name. Peter Thiel especially, as someone who has his hands in a lot of anti-democratic and far-right things and in forms of surveillance and control, is someone that people on the left and the right don’t like. But a lot of people still don’t know what Palantir is.
One of the strengths of our campaign is that the things that Palantir is up to, like tearing down democracy, surveilling people, or AI driven warfare, are activities that people on the left and the right don’t like and are able to unite behind. There are Republicans running for office in Florida and other parts of the country that have been very outspoken against Palantir.
I think the right wing is also paying attention. Obviously, parts of the right-wing are in support of Palantir because they support military supremacy. But a lot of the working class people who support MAGA also care about surveillance.
What is the goal you are fighting for?
netzpolitik.org: Your campaign helped to change the reputation of Palantir. What is the ultimate goal you are fighting for? Can the campaign be compared to a boycott campaign?
Purge Palantir: Palantir sells to businesses and to governments. So that’s harder to think about a boycott. But we just published a list of corporations that have contracts with Palantir. It’s really important to know who’s doing business with Palantir, who’s choosing that software because they’re making a moral choice. We do think it’s important to let those companies know that they could choose not to use software that engages in the genocide, that kidnaps our neighbors, that creates a military with no guardrails, and that stands for a surveillance state and for Western supremacy.
One of the main things that we’re doing and have been doing is large-scale public education. People need to know how pernicious Palantir is, what they’re doing, what they stand for. They say it: We kill people, we believe in Western supremacy. They’re pretty honest about where they stand. We don’t believe that we should be funding and supporting those kinds of businesses.
netzpolitik.org: Are there any lawsuits or similar legal actions in the U.S. in which people are challenging Palantir by calling on the law?
Purge Palantir: Unfortunately, in the U.S., we don’t have strong laws for data and privacy and against corruption. The crimes that they’re committing in Gaza and in Iran and other parts of the world are war crimes.
You should not siding with technofascists
netzpolitik.org: A lot of the tech billionaires right now are coming from the U.S. What makes Alex Karp, Peter Thiel and Palantir so special that you set up the campaign against them?
Purge Palantir: The tech companies are concentrated largely in the U.S. And they’re exporting their tech all across the world. Peter Thiel is traveling and donating to far-right candidates that align with him all over Europe, all over South America, increasingly parts of Asia. The fantasies are to completely deregulate everything, privatize everything, and have some sort of „AI God“ run things.
netzpolitik.org: What would you suggest to activists in Europe and especially in Germany? What can they do about Palantir?
Purge Palantir: What health care workers in the UK are doing is bigger and stronger than what we have in the U.S. I think the fact that football ultras are carrying banners in Germany, that’s impressive. We want to have that: Be in the cultural zeitgeist. We were talking with folks in Argentina who were collaborating with people in Bavaria.
I think it’s impressive where Europe’s at. I don’t think we have great advice for you.
I think on the larger strategy, we should politically force politicians to make a decision: If you are on the left, on the center left, or on the center, you are not siding with technofascists. And as we’ve talked about earlier: There are many people on the far right that also don’t trust this level of surveillance.
What gives hope
netzpolitik.org: What gives you hope and makes you believe you can win this fight against a multi-billion dollar company?
Purge Palantir: The wins we’re seeing every day like the mayor of London rejecting Palantir, the people across the UK and the German intelligence rejecting Palantir. Those wins give me hope. Just recently SEIU (Service Employees International Union), one of the largest unions here, came out and said that they are engaged in a campaign against the company. So seeing every day the growing amount of people and of organizations who are speaking out across the world and who are fighting back. Palantir might have money, sure. But we have more people …
netzpolitik.org: … and some European governments who do not share Palantir’s values?
Purge Palantir: Like I said before: Half of their revenue comes from the U.S. federal government. Under this current administration, there’s not a lot of room to affect that. But the other half comes from the private sector and international governments. I think that people and organizers in Europe have real leverage in slowing down this company, maybe even more than we have in the U.S. Because their success depends on their ability to grow across European governments. Slowing down and stopping that is a huge success.
netzpolitik.org: Thank you very much!
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